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Linda Clark-Borre's avatar

Thank you for navigating this faultline with such care and diligence. I still struggle and have for a long time with all this.

Pius XII’s accommodation of the Reich, the systematic cover-up of clerical abuse, were institutional decisions, made by church authorities acting in their official capacity, often to protect the institution itself.

The theological framework itself seems to inadvertently provide some institutional cover as I read it. If the Church is holy by nature, and sin belongs only to individual members, then the institution as Institution is immunized from accountability. The apologies become personal and spiritual rather than structural and legal.

This essay (to me) reflects your awareness of this - but yet doesn’t take this fully into account. Maybe it just can’t take that leap - it seems organizations in general mightily struggle on the point of deep reflecower/ culpability /action, and “politics” holds its own tacit power.

Thank you for the opportunity to think this through.

Mark Tilley's avatar

"... the question of whether or not it is possible to say the C/church sins. ... Surely people sin, and people in congregations and denominations sin, no one disputes that, but does the Church sin? ... The dialogue resolved the matter with the following paragraph:

... They also share the realization that, in this present age, believers are vulnerable to the power of sin, both individually and collectively. ..."


My take on this is more sociological, but based on my theological beliefs. That is, that we all have individual (i.e. moral) responsibility - which means groups do not. Yes, some might be swayed by the mob but their actions are still their own individual responsibility.

Our individual responsibility is implied in various places in Scripture, e.g. "whosoever believes in Him" - our asking for God's forgiveness for our sins is the act of an individual. And in the sheep vs. goats separation - we are judged as individuals according to our individual behaviour.

The opposite of this view is most often seen in today's society when corporations are often seen as immoral themselves (especially in certain political circles), as if a corporation itself has moral capacity, without much being said about the culpability of its employees. Certainly corporations can still be held monetarily responsible for the actions of employees since they are subject to its oversight, but that doesn't absolve employees from prosecution for their actions.

This is the reasoning I would apply to the question of whether the C/church sins. Sin is an individual problem, and I would respectfully disagree that it is a collective one aside from the obvious ramification that individuals with a problem are going to be a problem when they're in a group too.

This applies whether the group is a church, government (body) or corporation. Moral capacity is individual. Don't anthropomorphize groups.

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